Adam Panczuk








































































































































































































































































































































































































































  


MP: The series ‘Karczeb’ presents a world of people closely tied to the land they have inhabited for many generations. The idea of the Polish rustic life has always been present in Polish photography, yet your images prove that there are still ways to show the phenomenon in a new, more personal manner. That kind of photography usually documents the changes the country life undergoes in a particular social or economic background. Your works, as far as I can tell, presents individuals in their more atavistic roles. How do you perceive you photos from that perspective?

AP: While thinking about portraits, I always recall the words I heard at my grandfather’s funeral. Father Roman Piętka, an uniate priest, who served in the grandfather’s village, said them. He said that my grandfather had been a man who for all his life domesticated the land he cultivated so that he could return to her after his death. It was then that I realized how strong the bond between a man and his land is. And that after death the man also becomes the land. I wanted to capture that relation a man has with his land. Touch that human-nature bond. I am glad I managed to portray my characters in this way.

MP: Your photos are deeply existential, intelligent and emotional. They require a more sensitive approach from the viewer. Why did you choose to present the world in that particular way?

AP: I like watching people and understanding them as much as possible. This is my way of getting to them and showing them. How I see it and present it is a process. For the last five years I have worked on the subject of the country. After some time I became fond of using a totally different way of illustrating. Different from the one I have always used. I started interfering with what I was photographing and creating a document at the same time. Seemingly overbearing and antilogic. Yet. I succeeded.





MP: Is this done deliberately? What kind of conclusions are you trying to achieve in your viewers’ minds?

AP: My mission is not to convey a particular idea. On the other hand, however, if I decide to make someone think of what I do, I try my best to do so. As far as illustrating is concerned, I like to combine documentary photography with elements of creation. I also try to bring out additional meaning from everyday life.

MP: In your work you don’t concentrate on documenting drastic subjects such as war or human drama. I get the impression that subjects like this are popular with viewers, especially in the world of contemporary media.

AP: Seven years ago in Pakistan I experienced situations in a way connected with military conflicts. I was doing a photo report about an illegal weapons factory close to the Afghan-Pakistani border. But now I know that there are photographers, who know better how to show the subject of war.

MP: In YoursGallery in Warsaw you are about to have an exhibition, at which we will be able to see your two series of works devoted to the Polish countryside of the southern Podlasie region. The portraits presented are mainly staged ones, touching the idea of the human-nature bond in its existential meaning. The second collection refers to the everyday life of the country people. Both the cycles, obviously, beautifully complement one-another, but we are curious why you decided to design your exhibition in this way.

AP: The thing with the exhibition is that one part of it results from the other. That is, the portraits, which constitute the base of the exhibition, would not exist if I had not been busy documenting the so called everyday country life over the last few years. Those everyday life pictures are as if developing the story conveyed in the portraits. Portraits, on the other hand were made because I could not show certain things in the classical documentary way.

MP: The world is now unifying itself at an insane pace, not only in a global sense, but also in our country. I think it is a devastating process for small, local communities and cultures. The contemporary postmodernism causes everything to look the same everywhere. Human identity, the human-nature relation and spirituality is dying. It seems that your photography saves a part of the world from extinction.

AP: I think that every photo is about remembering what is happening here and now. When I first began to take pictures of the countryside, my ambition was to document the country and what changes it has experienced. However, I soon realized that the subject is too big for me to present it right. Therefore, I decided to focus on the human and his relation to the land.





MP: Are your photos a way to remember the world, a form of saving it from forgetting?

AP: A knew that lot of the pictures I had taken would neither be in the book nor in the exhibition. I documented them for myself. In a few years time it might be impossible for me to witness a situation such as whipping the butter (it is really rare even now). Such things will soon be gone forever, as gone will be the people who will not be able to pass their culture and skills on to the next generations. The documentary value of the photos will reach its fullest in several years. I would like my work to be the record of that reality, which is probably bound to disappear. There is something really appealing in being a chronicler.

MP: In your portraits you present a local community, or more precisely speaking rural. It is plain to see that you avoid showing urban life. This is also present in your other works, those not included in the exhibition. Why such an approach? Do you plan to continue developing that subject in this stylistics?

AP: You see, I would not draw a line between what is rural and what is urban. It just happened that for the last five years I have worked on the subject of the country. Before that I traveled round Asia, made a documentary on Bangkok’s nightlife or the life of rickshaw drivers in Old Delhi and Dakki. As far as continuing documenting the country life is concerned, I wanted to close the subject with an exhibition and a publication. By doing that I wanted to as if get it off my head, so that I could start thinking of a new subject. Somewhere in the future I plan to publish a book only with portraits. But I think that is a matter of five to ten years from now. I really like combining documentary with elements of creation and my next project is going to be based on that technique as well.

MP: YoursGallery in Warsaw shows very ambitious, world-wide photography. It is without a doubt one of the most interesting and professional places of that type in our country. How did it come to organizing your exhibition there?

AP: I started talking about the exhibition three years ago with the former custodian. The present custodian, Maja Kaszkur, had seen the project before she came to work in Yours and she left it in the gallery’s schedule. Apart from that, I was hoping to publish a book at the time of the exhibition. Unfortunately, this will not be possible due to some unfavorable circumstances. The book will be published a few months after the exhibition. I look forward to having that closing exhibition in a place like YoursGallery.

MP: What was it like preparing your exhibition with Maja Kaszkur, the custodian?

AP: It is a very important thing, in my opinion, to achieve a kind of trust between the photographer and the custodian. I also think that the custodian’s intuition and editing skills are priceless in this matter. What I like about Maja is that she sees not only the photos but also the author’s personality. She sees who you are.





MP: It is a great thing about photography that you can create your own world by means of staging and then show it to the viewer. In your “Karczeby” series of portraits there is a particular kind of symbolics that draws the attention. That symbolics you use seems to be somewhat deeper and broader, yet, in your photos it appears as animals, objects (clock, book, fish or goose). It seems like a “magical realism”, which can be freely interpreted.

AP: The people I portray are tied to the places where I portray them. They usually are the people’s yards or fields. All the things that these people are holding in the photos belong to them. They live with them everyday. Here, nothing comes from the outside. The ideas for the photos were usually mine, but while working on them I was ready to consider any suggestion. The photo with the boar’s skin, for example. It was Rafał, who suggested that he would stand on one foot, so that it looked like the other foot is the boar’s. It was really nice, because we could create the image together. “One hundred years of solitude” is a very important book for me and that kind of poetics has always been on my mind. I cannot say, however, that it was the main inspiration for me while working on my photos.

MP: Should we look for more local, folk meanings in these symbols? Or, should we seek for individual symbolics in each portrait and build a different story for a different character in the portraits? What was on your mind when you created your narration?

AP: I was not trying to capture each portrayed person’s character. It was more about delivering the concept I had on my mind. I know they are real people, on whose face you can see their lives, but it is difficult not to relate what is happening in the pictures to the people themselves. As far reading the symbols is concerned, I would not like to impose anything. It is obvious that you cannot tell somebody’s life or personality just by looking at a photo. I think I care a lot about achieving a balance between something natural and something symbolic. I do not want a symbol to dominate over the rest of the story in the picture.

MP: You decided to present your photos in black and white. But if we make a deeper insight into your work, a more traditional approach to photography emerges from it. I am thinking about black and white photography based on light-sensitive material here. Why such an approach?

AP: When I was embarking on the project, I wanted the photos to be taken in the classical documentary way. Besides, negative has a different expressiveness of the image. Of course, there is always the other thing; working on negatives requires much more effort and a different kind of concentration with taking photos.

MP: Are we going to see the full “Karczeby” series at the exhibition in YoursGallery? If not, when can we see the whole of it? Are you going to publish a book or anything else on that subject?

AP: Initially, I was intending to publish an album along with the exhibition. Unfortunately, I did not mange to do that due to some factors I could not change. I hope to publish it in six months’ time. Now, it is most important that the exhibition and the album are as good as possible. In the perspective of 5-10 years I would also like to publish a book with portraits.

MP: Can we say that everyone has their own “Karczeb”?

AP: I understand you mean the roots? I think we should all be addressed that question individually. I can speak for myself. A root for me symbolizes attachment, bond, strength. I can feel that bond.





MP: I know it took you much time to prepare for the subject and its realization. I am curious about the process of coming to the final version of the material we can now see at the exhibition. How long have you worked on the subject and is it now closed? Is it something essential for you to take your time while working on your photos?

AP: I like when you say “take your time”. I think time devoted to working on the subject usually brings the desired result, if you are concentrating enough and if you are not being clumsy. Since the moment I took the first picture I was overwhelmed by the myth that I should have as much time as possible to get familiar with the people I work with and that I should avoid superficiality. Be solidly prepared to work. The Berbers have a saying: “If you hurry, you’re already dead”.

MP: Some of your pictures are square-shaped. Why did you choose that shape?

AP: I saw it in squares.

MP: I must admit that the photos from the “Aktorzy (Actors)” series, showing actors of a local village theater, are unique. We are not going to see them at your exhibition. Nevertheless, they seem to be closely related to the “Karczeb” series. Are they?

AP: “Aktorzy” is the first series where I combined the elements of creation with a documentary. Yes, you can say that in this way the two series are related. In both of them you can see the presence of my interference. I started taking the “Karczeb” portraits two years after I made the “Aktorzy” project.

MP: How was it working with these people? I get the impression that it was fun both for them and for you. I also know it was published in several magazines.

AP: Working with was fun indeed. I had a car loaded with costumes and stuff. I was riving round the village looking for three volunteers for the photos. It was summer, a lot of work to be done in the fields, harvest, haymaking. The children liked it very much. For them it was real fun driving in the car and looking for people for the photos. They often asked me later if I wanted to take them for a few shots and they were full of ideas where to go. The posing itself was a big challenge for the actors, since the convention of theater is very capacious. It is good that people get the impression that I was fun working on it. I managed to capture something in a funny, relaxed way.

MP: Did the people you worked with feel it was something special for them, something that maybe changed their lives?

AP: The publications on it may be treated as a form of promotion for the theater itself. They received a lot of invitations. As far as I know, they are building an open-air theater and the money they got for the performances was spent on it.





MP: In the theory of a photo report there is rule, which says that the photographer should avoid superficial creating of images, planning them and arranging. He should rather try to grasp a moment, rely on intuition and instinct. How do you see it as a photographer who obviously knows how hard is it to take pictures of people.

AP: It most important for me that the people I shoot accept me. I need to feel at ease with the people I work with, feel their acceptance and that I am no trouble to them. I you get accepted you do not feel like an intruder. Then you get to see more. Also, the time spent with the people is important. The more time you spend with them, the greater chance for good photos you get. Time enables some thing to come out. Things you do not get to see at the first sight. Surely, instinct is something important. It gives you a chance to be in the right place at the right time.

MP: One of my favorite photos from the exhibition is the one showing a bare-chested man holding a stone. It made a tremendous impression on me the first time I saw it. Initially, I thought he was holding a large loaf of cottage bread, as if posing for a picture with a child I his hands. Could you enlarge on that picture a bit?

AP: It is a picture of Richard, a man who lives alone in the village near the river Bug. He lives on his pension. The first take on the photo was at night, in a field. I wanted to capture the Earth’s movement, so that the stars would create trails in the sky. We stood there for two hours. It was amazing because Richard is deaf-mute and we almost did not see one-another, but I could somehow feel his presence. It was unbelievable! Later it turned out that the photos did not go as I planned, so we had to repeat that in the same place a few days later. This time it was n daylight. The stone was lying near the field and the way Richard was holding it was natural for him.

MP: Is any particular photo that you like best?

AP: For personal reasons, my favorite photos is the one with my grandmother. She is the woman covered with a fishing-net. She is holding my grandfather’s Bible. He died 11 years ago. He was a very nice man, very easy-going. Once, my grandmother told him he had left his shoes in the yard and it was raining. He did nothing and said “If they got wet, they will get dry”. I like d him for his calmness and attitude. When I was taking the pictures I felt his presence.

MP: Which photo required the most effort from you?

AP: I worked the hardest with the photo of Ignacy, he is the shaggy man, whose head sticks up fro the ground. I had to find a nice piece of land and dig a hole I the ground. I was nice exercise, though. Ignacy’s reaction was really nice too. He said we must not hurry, because art needs time. A cup of coffee first, and then we get to work. So I was digging the hole without haste. It was the first photo in the series, it all started from it…





MP: A more general question arises while looking at your photos. Why do we tend to like stories we would never like to be part of? Although I do not share it, I came across an opinion that your photos show a tough world. Filled with misery and struggling to make ends meet, making us realize how hard it is to live like this. The awareness of the fact that this world exists only 200 or 300 kilometers away from the place of the exhibition is also significant.

AP: You see, if you look from the perspective of Warsaw, things may seem like this. Photos like this often cause denial. But I do not see poverty as it seems. These people may live poorly, there is no luxury, but they do not compare themselves to anyone. Who has less, who has more. What they have instead is their self-esteem and dignity.

MP: What can you tell us about the everyday life of the people you present?

AP: The land you cultivate lets you provide food for yourself and your family. Another thing is that by inheriting you father’s land you start to belong there. Your neighbors, the people from your village help you it times of trouble. You feel rooted and there is no rush that is so characteristic of the city life. That is the case with Warsaw, which is full of people from the outside, who came to live there. They do not have much support from their families; they lose their roots, find new friends. They build their self-confidence and sense of belonging on money and possessions. In the country you see many things in a simple way, I do not know if it is good or bad, it is just simple. On the other hand agriculture is hard work. There is so many things you have to depend on when you are a farmer. The weather is bad, drought or rain and the crops are not what you expected them to be. The prices of fertilizers go up, you cannot sell your dry goods, because the purchasing centers do not want it and your money is frozen. This is also an example of how you depend on nature.

MP: Religion is something that strongly determines the life of the people in the country. It is something you cal clearly see in their everyday life. The culture of the region you present in your photos is a mixture of Polish and Belorussian influences, which results in the coexistence of the Catholic and Orthodox religion. I am curious if you do not touch that subject in your photos on purpose? It seems to me that being religious is something very important especially for older generations.

AP: It is not that I do not touch the subject of religion. There are many photos related to it in my collection. In the exhibition there are two pictures which say a lot about attitudes towards God, faith, religion and afterlife. In Łomazy, a town 4 kilometers away from Lubenka, there are three cemeteries: Jewish, Muslim and Catholic. There is an Orthodox-uniate church in Kostomłoty. It is a region where many religions exist. But there is something you can feel beyond that. For example if there is a Catholic festival, the Orthodox people do not work in the field. They respect each-other’s tradition and are aware of the fact that they all pray to one God.

MP: A photo itself is not most important, it is a proof a the dialogue between the photographer and the photographed. When taking your staged portraits, did you ask people to behave and pose like you wanted? Or maybe you chose to let your models behave spontaneously? What was it like working with the people? Surely, it must have been different than in case of professional models?

AP: First, you need to talk to the people, let them accept you and not treat you as an intruder. Taking pictures comes next. I started taking photos after three years of running round the village with the camera. I knew my models very well. I had no difficulties with persuading them to pose for the photos. I think it was also important that they saw my earlier photos. The time we spent together made it possible for many ideas to naturally ripen. It is quite easy to hire models and arrange a photo. I wanted to mix elements of creation with documentary. I wanted to capture something authentic and genuine.





MP: Was it difficult to find people willing to take part in the project? How did you mange to do that?

AP: Working on the previous series “Aktorzy” has helped me with that. The people trusted me and felt at ease. Behind every picture there is getting to know a person and his story. But, there was one unique situation. I was driving a lot in the wilderness at that time. I remember a track through some woods and a flock of geese and woman carrying brushwood. I am talking about the photo of Mrs. Maria (the woman with goose). She is the only person I did not know before I took the pictures. I had a camera with a loaded film and I simply asked if I could take a picture of her. She said yes just like that. The photo turned out brilliant and I brought her a copy, which she liked very much.

MP: Speaking about the preparations for the pictures. You have worked on the subject for a very long time. While preparing, did you rely mainly on intuition and dialogue with the people, or did you look for additional sources of information like ethnographical and cultural publications?

AP: I relied mainly on observation and conversations. I also remembered a lot from the stories about the country life, which I heard 15-20 years ago. I also heard many stories about the past from Kazimierz Kusznierow – the village theater director. You can say he is a kind of chronicler. He preserves many of the customs in his plays. He calls the people from the past the “ancient people” and I benefited a lot from the stories about them. The series “Aktorzy” was inspired by the “Czeladońka” theater. Before I started taking portraits, for two months I did nothing but traveled round the village taking only some digital camera notes. I was talking with Kazimierz a lot at that time. And finally the whole thing started.

MP: Some photographers say that the image of the world is not outside but inside us. There is something genuine in your photos, something beyond the photos themselves. Maybe it is a sign of your personal commitment to the subject or trying to search for your identity. I am curious about how you feel about it, since I know that your family origins are connected to that particular region. I am aware that this a personal question, but what does the subject mean to you personally? Why return to your roots and show them? Maybe you treat it as a kind of personal diary?

AP: The case with photography is that it always says something about the photographer who did it. I am sure that the subject can be treated a a kind of tribute. I also felt much like a chronicler.

MP: What can you tell us about the moment you knew you wanted to be a professional photographer and you had to make a decision about what to do next? Some people decide to go with the flow and they deal with current issues. They travel round the world looking for their own kind of expression, subjects and gaining experience. Others turn to academic education. It seems that you have tried both ways. How has your experience influenced you as a photographer? Is there any advice you have for the beginners?

AP: I started taking photos quite late, actually. I was in my final year of high school. With what I achieved as a photographer at that time I had no chance to get to any university to study photography. So I started traveling. After my first trip to Israel I brought some photos of the Bedouin market in Berszew. I took them to the Rzeczpospolita (they published a magazine at that time) and they told me that the photos were neither good nor bad, just dull. It got me thinking that I do not want to hear anything like this again. I prepared for my next trip scrupulously. I saw many photos and I thought about them a lot. In 2000 I went to India, Bangladesh and Nepal. There, I was able to concentrate on the photos only. Nothing distracted my attention. I made a report on rickshaw drivers and Ganges, which went well. Then I lived for nearly a year in London, where I made a report on working emigrants. It was in 2001 and I had some problems because most of the Polish people I photographed worked illegally. When I returned to Poland I was in my third year of studying at The Economical Academy and I had no idea what to do next. I made an analysis of my career as a photographer. I felt confident enough to take the entrance exams for photography at The Academy of Fine Arts in Poznań. The studies enabled me to gain experience in photography in a much wider sense. I became familiar with photography as a whole. However, when I think of it now, I realize I that I learned most on my trips, not at the academy. My advice for the beginners is that they should see and analyze as many pictures as they can. Understand the story behind the photo and why the photographer took it in that particular way. Think about how I would take that photo if I worked on that subject. It is very educational.





MP: You prove that some of the most interesting and important subjects can be found all around us. What do you think is the key to a good subject for a photo?

AP: I think there are no ready-made methods. For sure, there must be commitment, mystery, a kind of “un-evidence” and a story that draws you in.

MP: Are there any living or deceased photographers you would like to spend an evening and have a bottle of whisky? Who would that be and why?

AP: With Nadar, I guess. It is very attractive the way how he could balance between documentary and art. Between science and photography. He was a pioneer. I like his portraits and I have never flown a balloon…

MP: In 2009 you achieved some important awards for your “Karczeb” series. The second place in the prestigious Magnum Expression Award for example. Has it caused a greater interest in your art, I mean the galleries and custodians. Has it brought you any profit such as exhibitions or sold photos?

AP: There was no immediate profit. It is more important that my work was noticed and awarded. It was a kind of positive feedback. I think profits may come in time. You see, it looks nice in my “history of disease”, but so far I have not experienced any greater interest caused by that award. I did feel an increase of interest after the New York Times published the project on their website, though. A nice gallery from Chicago contacted me and offered to represent me in the US.

MP: The presentations of portfolios organized at photographical festivals are an important way of promoting your own work. It is a chance for photographers to meet the custodians, critics or gallery owners. What can a photographer expect of these meetings? What works should he show and how should he prepare for it?

AP: It is a great opportunity to show your work and to promote it. I took part in such meetings only once. It turned out to be very profitable. As a result my photos were published on websites of the New York Times and Lensculture. I definitely recommend taking part in these meetings to everyone.

MP: Where do you get your inspiration from? Do you look for it in the works of other photographers?

AP: I read about and watch what other photographers do. How they build their stories and how I can benefit from it as an artist. As far as the subjects and the photos are concerned, it is always a resultant of what interest me and what images are on my mind, also what aesthetics I would like to turn to. It is important to find an interesting subject.





MP: What do you think about Polish modern photography? Which artists do you find most interesting?

AP: Taking into consideration the awards the Polish photographers have been getting for the press photos recently, I must say that things are looking good. Last year, for example, five polish photographers were noticed at the WorldPressPhoto. Rafał Milach got the second prizes in POY. Wojtek Grzędziński was awarded VISA D’OR NEWS AWARD 2009. Michał Łuczak and I were favored in the Magnum Expression Award contest. Many photographical schools and workshops are being founded. Many young people want to develop their visual awareness and I think things are going in the right direction. I hope that that market of complimentary and artistic photography in our country will soon reach its full potential.

MP: I know that there is a possibility of buying you works presented at the exhibition in YoursGallery. Could you say something more about the value of the copies and how they are prepared? I am asking the question because I know that in this modern and digitalized world such an approach towards photography has a totally different dimension and value as far as presentation is concerned.

AP: All of the material from the exhibition was made on negatives. There are two formats: 30x30 cm nad 60x60 cm. The photos are printed on archival paper. While producing the prints I cooperated with a retoucher. It was something new for me, since I used to do all the processing myself. It gave me a lot of comfort and enabled me to look at the photos from a distance.

MP: It is not as difficult to take a picture as it is to tell an interesting story. What are your next stories? What are you working on at present?

AP: Yes, I believe that is true. To make a long story short, I would like to make a series of portraits of women. I have an idea for a story, but it is to early to say anything more about it.

MP: What made you laugh recently?

AP: My girlfriend – she is good at making me laugh. Also a few days ago Maja, the custodian, reminded me of a funny story I once told her. It is about a public prosecutor, who bought a house in the village and visited it at weekends. There, in the village he had a neighbor – a man who loved partying. On one Saturday the neighbor was having a barbecue with some friends. The gentlemen were drinking some alcohol. Suddenly, the neighbor’s dog (a large wolfhound) showed up with the prosecutor’s dead dog in his mouth. The neighbor and his friends got really scared, because they thought the wolfhound killed the prosecutor’s dog. The situation was even more terrifying for the neighbor because he had a suspended sentence at that time and thought he would suffer some legal consequences of the crime his dog had committed. So, he and his friends decided to wash the prosecutor’s dead dog and return it to its doghouse. The next day the prosecutor came to his neighbor and told him that a very strange thing happened. He said: “Two days ago my dog died and I buried it in my garden. Today I found my dog lying dead in its doghouse…” It turned out that the neighbor’s wolfhound had dug out the prosecutor’s dog and brought it to his master.

29.01.2010 / ADAM PANCZUK in conversation with Modernphoto
Adam Panczuk was interviewed by Mariusz Śledź

Adam Panczuk (1978) lives in Warsaw. He comes from Biała Podlaska. He works anywhere he finds an interesting subject. He studied at The Economical Academy and at The Academy of Fine Arts in Poznań (Faculty of Multimedia Communications). In his works he asks straightforward, yet metaphorical, questions about identity, awareness and attitude towards the world and the people he meets. He is a holder of a scholarship of The Ministry of Culture and National Heritage.





www.adampanczuk.pl		  



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